Sammy Gets Nominated for the Self Hating Jew Award

I had this email exchange with Ami Isseroff about the self hating awards:

Suppose around 1965 someone had written:

"Communists are very dangerous" - Most of us can agree to that.

Then they gave a list of dangerous communists

Joe Stalin

Nikita Krushchev

Fidel Castro

.....

So far so good.

Then they added to the list, other dangerous "Communists"

Dwight Eisenhower

Martin Luther King

Adlai Stevenson

---

Most people would conclude that the person who made the list is a weirdo extremist.

Your list says more about you than it does about the people on your list.

On the one hand you have a point. People like Jeff Halper, Marsha Cohen, (you forgot her - oops), Naomi Klein, Finkelstein, Ilan Pappe, Avi Shlaim and others are hard to explain as anything other than psychiatric aberrations.

Richard Cohen seems to be an erratic and ignorant theater critic whose heart might be in the right place, but who makes bizarre observations from time to time.

Shimon Peres is a different matter however. In each day of his adult life, Peres probably did more for the Jewish people then you will ever do if you live for a thousand years Mr. Lid - unless your pseudonym hides the name of a former head of the Mossad or some similar official. A group of self-hating Jews, poisoned by their own hate, decided that Peres should not be president and voted instead for a degenerate rapist. We have the Peres haters to thank for Katsav's shameful fiasco of a presidency. Putin used it to make us the laughing stock of the world. What could have been more self-destructive and self-hating than that?

The "Entire Olmert Government" includes, for example, Ehud Barak, who risked his life on numerous occasions for the Jewish people and the state of Israel. He is our most decorated soldier. Where do you come off, sitting in America someplace with your aol account, deciding that Barak, Olmert and Peres are not good Jews or loyal Israelis? Did you go to Beirut dressed as a woman to whack Palestinian terrorists? Did you create the Israeli nuclear reactor? Father the hi-tech industry? Organize defense procurement in 1948?? Of course, everyone can have a different political opinion and make mistakes, but that is not the same thing as being a traitor or a self-hating Jew.

Aside from penning a venomous Web log for the faithful and inciting future Yigal Amirs, what is your great Zionist achievement that allows you to sit in judgement of people like Barak and Peres and declare that they are "self hating Jews"??

A guy who writes a screed denigrating the heros of Israel is a self-hating Jew. I vote for you. Write-in.---Ami Isseroff

I replied

did you read the peoples logic?

Ami Followed up by saying that she had read my post and that was enough. But some how it wasn't because I received this from her tonight:

About Peres - My logic:

I am an American Palestinian Jew. My parents were born in Palestine. I was born in USA. I learned from the American ethic and from fraternizing in Israel with US marines to be loyal to my country and my flag in my own leftist anarchistic Palestinian Jewish way.

Shimon Peres is my President. He is the one that that the Hamas call "President of the Zionist entity." He gets the curses of the enemy. He doesn't need the curses of so called Zionists too. As it happens, he is also the last flag bearer of the generation of the builders of the state - magic people of giant stature who are mostly gone and who created this place from nothing with their bare hands and will power.

.

As a Zionist, who is doing ZIonist hasbara, I can see no purpose in tearing down our country's leaders and founding fathers in public, and no justification for it when it is done by trash for partisan reasons. It furthers no Zionist or national objective. To outsiders it is "nivul peh" - it is like a child badmouthing his parents in public. Especially ugly and embarrassing and typical of Diaspora mentality are the articles that put curses on leaders and the people who believe that Sharon is being punished by God for disengagement and so on. I disagreed with Sharon's politics for most of his life. He was villified as a fascist and a war criminal and a baby eater. He certainly did some undignified things and some wrong things. But he was a soldier of Israel. A man of exceptional bravery. He was wounded and went on fighting in at least one war - and he fought in every war until 1973. As I remember he fought in that desparate horrible battle in San Simon in 1948. How can these small minded people show such disrespect because they disagree with his political opinion? What purpose does it serve? What do outsiders think when they see it? Believe me, for Peres or Sharon, it is like tearing out a piece of flesh to give up a piece of the land. If they do it, they have good reason. They might be wrong, but one needs to respect their motives and judgement.

We can vote as we please, and we can argue for or against this or that policy. But calling down the curses of Jehovah and imprecations of traitor and self-hating Jew and so on national leaders of this type is totally unfitting and undecorous. It is not what a sovereign people do. It is Zhidis in a shtetl or Yentes in the market arguing about who should be the next rabbi. The result of this sort of brawling was evident in the murder of Yitzhak Rabin, which is tacitly supported by a lot of demented people.

The only leader who really deserves such treatement is Katsav. He disgraced the office of president. He disgraced the flag. He disgraced the state of Israel and the Jewish people. A filthy degenerate. That is who got elected because "religious" Jews could not vote for Peres - a sex maniac. The rabbis and their followers, the pious Jews of Yahadot Hatorah, broke their promises. They lied to Peres and voted for a degenerate sex maniac and made him president of Israel instead, because they were blinded by their fanatic hatred.

Yidwithalid - maybe I am an anti-Semite to you. A lot of Zionists are in a sense.

Think of the Marine honor guard at Arlington cemetery. That is the respect due to our national heros. That is the image we have to project to outsiders.

To which I responded:

First of all --no one mentioned Ariel Sharon

Second of all the reason that Katsav became Pres. is because Sharon wanted a Likud party hack.

You mentioned Rabin.... the Peres/Olmert Policies are in direct opposition to what Rabin wanted See: http://yidwithlid.blogspot.com/2007/10/wwrd-what-would-rabin-do.html

As a Jew that lives in America I have every right to criticize the Israel government but it doesn't matter---because Peres was nominated by Israelis- they have more of a right---one of the people that nominated Peres raised her family in Shiloh and still lives there,,,,Peres and Olmert are planning to go against the will of the people to give away these peoples homes.

I have two problems with Peres, Barak and Olmert. Number one, they have done nothing to protect the people of Sedrot and others in Gaza, and by throwing people out of their homes in Judea and Samaria they will be destroying lives and puttin more people in Harms way--- the other problem is that they plan to divide Jerusalem and give away the temple mount...which is not theirs to give.

But I didn't nominate them or even vote for them. For me it was a tough battle between Ken Roth and Jeff Halper. Both of them Have used anti-jewish Stereo types. To me that's what makes someone a self hater. You can bash your own people all you want but once you start using the buzz words of the anti-Semites 'Jewish lobby" "controlling the media" that's when you start moving into self hating territory.

What I don't understand is that you are taking one nomination and blowing it out of context. Did you read any of the others or are you Just fixated by this one

Do I think you are a self hating Jew,,,,not by anything that you have written so far..but tell me what makes a Pious Jew blinded by hatred? ..I consider myself a pious Jew you think I am blinded by hatred?...most people think I am pretty tolerant. I just think that what gives Israel its legitimacy is the fact that it is a Jewish State...and what makes something Jewish is adherence to the Torah...not necessarily the Orthodox interpretation but some sort or relationship...that's what I wrote in this piece that is appearing in INN http://yidwithlid.blogspot.com/2007/10/wwrd-what-would-rabin-do.html

I posted every nomination people submitted whether I agreed with it or not. (I happen to agree with the Peres pos)..why? For discussions sake, and because I have a tolerance for other people's Ideas---if you haven't read all of the nominees and the people's posts about them...then you are showing the same lack of tolerance for others Ideas as you accused me of having in your email.

I too am a Zionist. That's why I am up at five am most mornings and after midnight most evenings. I search the web looking for information,,,and write posts that give my 7-800 readers a day weapons to fight the verbal war against those who would see Israel destroyed...it takes an openness and a sharing of all points of view.to win that war

We don't live in Shetels anymore...no longer is it "Not in front of the goyim" many of our supporters are non-Jews, and many of our detractors are Jews who are bashing us in front of the "goyim." THEY MUST BE ANSWERED.

Sorry you disagree.

If you would like to have more posted comments please feel free to use the link on my Blog.

Erev Tov

Sammy

I have my own Web site (s). I discuss there what I think should be brought to the attention of the public. There are 24 hours in a day...

A.I.

ami-iss@013.net

you wrote excusable read your email....if you want to have a discussion ..have one in public...you stated your case I stated mine, I read your emails...You are commenting on something that you didn't read...unless you read it and discuss those points with the author you are being close-minded so we are done

This blog is an open discussion--sorry you need to be "under the table" and to rip arguments that you don't read

I think Ms. Amy doesn't have the courage of her convictions to have an open discussion...

So Dear Readers...what do you think?